The Blog of Ben Rockwood

Sun and NetApp Lock Horns and Head for Court

06 Sep '07 - 05:41 by benr

I'm was greatly saddened to read this: NetApp Sues Sun for ZFS Patent Infringement. I've been a big consumer of NetApp and Sun equipment for years. Readers of this blog have read numberous articles discussing the use of iSCSI and ZFS on NetApp in a Solaris environment.

On a business level, I get the reality of this. Sun's lawers foolishly walked into a bear cave and the bear woke up. -1 to Sun's lawers. They have no real recourse except to protect themselves and return the favor. If Dave's account is truthful, and I don't doubt that it is, this is all Sun Legal's fault. If I were a NetApp investor (I'm not) I would expect the business to respond and if possible turn it in NetApp's favor.

On a personal level, I'm bummed. NetApp wouldn't be what it is without NFS. I've long said that "NetApp is what it is because it beat Sun at its own game." For those of us who are passionate in the Sun storage community the shame of watching a competitor consistently kick Sun's ass with its own creation has been frustrating and embarrassing to some degree. Nevertheless, it can not be ignored that NetApp and the WAFL file system have considerably advanced the craft and set the standard for storage in the industry. I feel the pain of both sides, but protecting patents such as the COW are somewhat absurd. Yes, NetApp has a legal card to play and they are putting it on the table and, to my knowledge, they haven't tried to play that card so far, but its still lame. Poor form on both sides... but I admit, if I were to choose a side that I think has more merit it wouldn't be Sun... and I'm really saddened to say that.

Here's my question.... where does Jonathan fit into the picture and what can he do? Jonathan and Dave are both very reasonable and intelligent men, I wonder what could be accomplished by providing them with a table, 2 pints, and about 2 hours. Its moved beyond that already it would appear, but I hate to see the courts come into this. And, beyond that, Sun's legal team wouldn't go after such a large corp as NetApp without the consent of the CEO right? I know that Sun has been careful all along to stear clear of NetApp patents, but regardless, would the money from the patents be worth more than the hit Sun will inflict from its potentially weaker position in the matter?

What will happen, what will happen.... who knows. I hope it goes well. The industry needs head-to-head battle between Sun and NetApp with victory decided in the market, not the courtroom. EMC, Hitatchi, IBM... these guys aren't bringing innovation to the market like Sun and NetApp have been. And so I'm praying for a Win-Win scenario to play out. I'm not sure what that is, they are competitors, but I don't see good coming out of the legal struggle for either party.

Dave and Jonathan, Good luck to you both.

- - C O M M E N T S - -
Sun is an arrogant child. I just hope they have a enough opensource popular mass to support them during trial. Unfortunately I will have no other option than to take ZFS out of our supported filesystems: a major company cannot take the risk to store data on a threatened support. In a way this will postponed (for its own good) fishworks.

Miles - 06 September '07 - 12:20

Seems like Sun has a different take on how this went down. According to Johnathan Sun didn’t go after NetApp first. NetApp wanted to buy patents from Sun and Sun said No.

[[http://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/entry/on..]]

dan (Email) (URL) - 06 September '07 - 13:52

I love internet jocks like Miles. You have absolutely no clue what has
occurred yet you are prepared to make such definitive statements. The
only people who currently know what has REALLY transpired are the
legal departments and execs of Sun and NetApp. Don’t believe
everything you read – page hits count for something you know!

Jon (Email) - 06 September '07 - 14:54

I think the real war is arounf fishworks
[[http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/04/0..]]
which is due to be release this autumn for beta customers. that is what I meant

miles - 06 September '07 - 15:27

Miles, by that same token you would have stopped using Linux because of the SCO lawsuit. This kind of FUD is of course precisely why MS/SCO or NetApp engage in these tactics in the first place.

Their choice of Lufkin, TX, a jurisdiction beloved of patent trolls (when both Sun and NetApp are based in Silicon Valley) is pretty daming in its own right.

Read Jonathan Schwarz’s blog posting today. After reading him and Dave Hitz, I am far more inclined to trust Sun than NetApp’s take on things.

Fazal Majid (Email) (URL) - 06 September '07 - 18:02

Wait wait – if sun approached Net App (which is bullshit, from what I hear), why is NetApp suing Sun over NetApp patents? – in EAST freakin’ Texas? Because they’re just SCO in another costume. Boycott NetApp, I’m tired of their bullshit. Sun is the white hat, all they’re doing is innovating.

Darren Anderson (Email) - 06 September '07 - 23:19

you’ve got to be stupid or naive to think that

A) Schwartz didn’t know about this since today, or that it came as a surprise at all.

B) That Sun is “innovating.” If they were, they’d build their own high end gear instead of renting out Hitachi, Or buy NetApp instead of trying to submarine them.

A lot of the Sun Supporters here are saying this is SCO redux. I agree, a little bit. But you have to admit there are shades of Microsoft IE (being released for “free”) vs. NetScape, where you have a larger competitor playing dirty with small(er) fry.

Max Reid (Email) - 07 September '07 - 03:53

My gut feeling is that NetApp probably wasn’t, and isn’t grumpy with the Open Source, general purpose version of ZFS. What they are grumpy about is Open Sourcing the key Software component, and then launching something like Fishworks, which will most likely has the necessary and deeper integration think proprietary Driver and lower level firmware, required to live up to all the ZFS hype.

Max Reid (Email) - 07 September '07 - 05:17

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Tipaza (Email) - 07 September '07 - 15:19

“Jonathan and Dave are both very reasonable…” I don’t know about Dave, but over the last few years, Jonathan has been spinning like a top, rewriting Sun’s history, denying the obvious (in a loud and apparently deliberately biting “voice”), behaving like a bigoted revisionist. It’s a big shame, it seems blogging has warped his sense of reality and honesty. It’s doubly a shame as much of what he has
retroactively reinvented or denied simply does not need to be, Sun has reason to be proud of it’s history…

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