The Blog of Ben Rockwood

The Secret Behind MediaTemple's Grid-Server

22 Oct '06 - 06:14 by benr

There has been a lot of buzz around (mt) MediaTemple's latest offering this week: (gs) Grid Server. I listened to a podCast at TechCrunch and was really sucked into the marketing speak about the offering. But as a SysAdmin I wanted to know how it worked. The key to the product is that you setup your enviroment once and its "automatically deployed on the grid", thereby even your little site is benefiting from the collective resources of the grid.

I had to know how it worked. I called MediaTemple but they wouldn't tell me anything... frankly I don't think the guy I talked to even knew. So I bought an account to look for myself and found something very very interesting. The real story isn't MediaTemples Grid Server, its actually BlueArc.

The secret behind GS isn't revolutionary, but it is clever. Basically they have, at last check, 17 systems running Debian. Thanks to a BlueArc press release I know they bought a Titan back around the middle of this year. They had a relationship with HP, found via Google in an HP success story, which leads me to believe they are still using HP systems, and specifically I think they are using HP ProLiant DL360 2.00GHz G5 Servers based on data from /proc. Interestingly there are 4 Xeon 2Ghz cores and only 2GB of memory per system. There is no local storage, instead the systems boot a root filesystem via NFS, and user storage is also mounted NFS.

The Grid magic is this: store all use data on NFS so that no matter which system you connect to you can access the data. Then spread your vhost configuration to all hosts in the "grid", so that any system can serve your data. This system is therefore highly scalable because adding an additional node to the "grid" is trivial and reliable because if one system dies, big deal. But this means that you require two things to make it work: really good load balancers and really good NFS storage. And by good I mean very reliable and extremely fast.

And thats where BlueArc Titan fits into this story... without the performance offered by BlueArc Titan the Grid Server concept just can't work and becomes a disaster. Putting all user data on the Titan is a big vote of confidence but putting all the root filesystems on it says something even more telling. No doubt the idea of putting root filesystems on NFS was not to reduce componants in the servers but to facilitate provisioning and change management by means of cloning a "golden root" and rebooting each machine.

I have no idea what load balancer they are using. Apparently whoever it is isn't putting their name in a press release. In a setup like this I'd only choose to go with F5 BigIP, but who knows. They do have Pound installed on each node but I can't imagine that they'd spend money on systems and storage but not on load balancers.

Of course, this leaves one problem, especially if your a Ruby on Rails developer: PHP can be served by any host by Apache, but Rails apps use their own webservers (WEBrick, Mongrels, or ligHTTPd). Thats where the (mt) Containers come in. I'm less sure about how that works, and frankly less interested. Basically you create a little container (64M in the low end account) within which you setup your Mongrels and that then starts the binaries in n number of grid nodes. This applies to any application that requires running binaries, so Java developers aren't welcome (untill they design Tomcat/Geronimo containers). If your a developer, look before you leap, (gs) might be great for static content and Apache CGI, but otherwise look elsewhere. These are by no means to be confused with real containers or what many call "Virtual Private Servers" (VPS) or even "Virtual Dedicated Servers".

Back to BlueArc, the real story here, I'm impressed that (mt) trusted their solution to them. Its a testimate to the reputation BlueArc is building in the industry. I am a little interested in the configuration in terms of performance because I found that with 8K blocks I get 102MB/s in a TextDrive Container (NFS on Thumper) vs 72MB/s in a MediaTemple Grid Server (NFS on Titan), shocked actually, I would expect the BlueArc to blow away Thumper, but I'm withholding judgement for now. What I'll be watching is how the performance changes over time, as (mt) moves more customers (new and old) into the "grid". If I do a benchmark in 6 months will I see the same performance or reduced? When there is maintance or failure on the Titan (unlikely as that might be) will it take down the entire site? It shouldn't of course, but that depends onwhether (mt) bought a redundant configuration. In short, the fate of (mt) rests squarely on that device... lets see how things go.

- - C O M M E N T S - -
hardware load balancers: eh, the problem there is often configuration. shuffling http requests to the least-loaded of several identical http servers is a first-year programming problem, so it’s been solved many times. propritary “black boxes” often make it difficult to use more complex configurations of what requests go where. That, and ‘black boxes’ often like to charge a per-host fee, which gets expensive fast.

As for the performance of the titan – I don’t want to talk shit about a product I haven’t used, but NFS in general is, well, kinda mediocre. really, you can’t even touch 1G FC speeds until you use 10G ethernet, and that costs real money. Now; there are some very old implementations, and you can hire any SysAdmin off the street and he will be able to configure NFS, but there are many other SAN technogies that would enable simliar clustering , and most of them offer better performance than NFS. The advantage of NFS is not performance- it’s stability and interoperability of the implementations.

Because of this simplicity, if MT’s NFS appliance suddenly breaks, it really won’t be that hard to restore from backup on to a couple external SCSI arrays and serve with FreeBSD boxes. NFS is NFS- you’d take a speed hit but it would mostly work.

I’m just some guy with a couple used brocades, so my opinion is probably worth about what you paid for it, but that’s what I think.

luke crawford (Email) (URL) - 22 October '06 - 23:28

also, how do you do disk benchmarks? I’m a scsi nazi, so of course, I think the dd metric is completely useless for most things. (It’s nice when it comes time to restore from backup, but in my world, sequential access is something of a myth.) but that might be mostly because with the dd metric any dork with a couple sata drives can keep up with me; I look much better when it comes to measuring latency on heavily parallel loads.

luke crawford (Email) (URL) - 22 October '06 - 23:33

Something that comes to my mind is how many spindles do they have behind the BlueArc? If its not equivalent to the 48-spindles y’all have on a Thumper, then that would explain the performance lag despite an FPGA’d controller on the BlueArc.

Jason Williams (Email) - 23 October '06 - 23:28

BlueArc’s performance and reliability do seem impressive, but what MT is doing is really no different than what many sites have been doing for years with multiple identical hosts connected to just about any modern disk array with a cluster filesystem. I designed and implemented one such filesystem in 1999-2001, and it wasn’t the only one or even the first. I was at a site using another just two weeks ago.

Basically NFS is only one way to present a shared coherent filesystem to multiple hosts, and not even the best way. It’s just the easiest way for many people because they understand NFS and LANs better than cluster filesystems and SANs.

Platypus (Email) (URL) - 24 October '06 - 07:17

Thanks for this detailed post. I was considering a (gs) account but now I’m not so sure. Waiting for MediaTemple to whip together “containers” for every new binary server platform doesn’t sound like it’s worth it.

Alex Payne (Email) (URL) - 24 October '06 - 10:42

My company has been offering a similar service for years, it’s a nice play of public relations.

Dataracks (Email) (URL) - 29 October '06 - 09:59

For a thread on WHT about it and the issues customers have seen.

[[http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthre..]]

Larry Ludwig (Email) (URL) - 29 October '06 - 17:08

BlueArc had a headache yesterday:

https://ac.mediatemple.net/incident/detail.mt?key=QSnFSMQMTr

and shit in MT’s new cadillac. :-)

taco (Email) - 29 October '06 - 18:10

firstofall, I still think it’s a nice offer, but:
so there are 17 hosts? at times I’ve been running a lot more compute power at home – i don’t know why anyone is even discussing the offer, unless it’s technically brilliant

I like the bluearc part, but obviously (see last post) they lack competence for running it. You don’t want to be late applying patches against data loss, and You shouldn’t need to summon onsite techs for applying patches, and especially You don’t want to be late on more than one patch like they were.

BUT I do like the bit about the bluearc system noticing the fault. That’s what I’d like to know more about. Seems bluearc is safe, just (mt) is nothing more than what it looks like: little unexperienced ISP.

darkfader - 31 October '06 - 13:56

Like previous commenters, Im not sure why BlueArc is the big story here; While they have impressive SpecOps, their throughput isn’t particularly impressive, and I’m kinda curious how their throughput scales with cluster size. I can think of a few companies in the clustered storage space that seem to have BlueArc beat in the scalability department, and do so without custom hardware/FPGA which is likely to have flaws (see earlier comment) that are bound to be less trivial to fix than a simple software patch. As for the first comment re. NFS performance, I have just three words.. NFS, RDMA, IB. (does that even count as three words?)
MediaTemple does seem like small fish.. what I’d like to find out is what the storage solution for, say, MySpace looks like. If anyone is pushing the throughput envelope, it’s gotta be them.

Case - 23 November '06 - 00:37

Case: We discussed various storage solutions, including MySpace’s a couple months ago: [[http://cuddletech.com/blog/pivot/entry..]]

In short, MySpace agrees with you and chose to use Isilon clustered IB storage, which has been a quiet but popular solution that I’ve not really discussed in this blog due to my lack of hands on experience with one. Something I’m hoping to change at some point in the future.

While IB is a great technology 10Gb Ether really makes it look less impressive, especially with NFS RDMA improving all the time. The IB problem is 2 fold: future-proofing and cost. The two are at some level one-in-the-same. Scaling outward with IB is a cost issue whereas Gigabit ethernet is everywhere and cheap, which when combined with trunking/aggregations/teaming becomes a very powerful alternative. On a purely technical level I agree with you on IB, but my more practical side is very hesitant. Regardless Isilon is a powerful player that can’t be underestimated.

benr - 27 November '06 - 02:13

.... and for the technical editors in the crowd: Yes I’m aware that Isilon can use gigabit ether instead of IB.

benr - 27 November '06 - 02:15

the secret is that the Grid SUCKS! its always going down.

tom (Email) - 28 November '06 - 14:39

We got up and running on media temple about 3 weeks ago. We have had downtime, latency, or email issues just about every other day. It has been the worst vendor I have ever used, and I will never, ever consider using them again or recommend them. I wouldn’t be surprised if they lose every customer over this. The past two weeks have been ridiculous. If you can’t keep my site up and my email coming in, what good are you?

Jon (Email) (URL) - 28 November '06 - 21:21

mt got title “worst hosting provider” after introducing (gs). I have 4 domains and they are down every single day (email, FTP, DNS, Database, website) every day something happen. Customer suport is not anymore capable to handle support tickets and phone calls. mt temple is going to to lose soon all customers. I moving my business some where else. Can you hear me MT !!!!!

Paulius (Email) - 29 November '06 - 15:29

I believe “grid” hosting in the new hip cool buzz word in the indsutry whose entire livelyhood is buzz terms and false advertising….

Ross
[[http://www.thehostguru.com]]
[[http://www.digg.com/software/The_Grid_..]]

Ross (Email) (URL) - 29 November '06 - 22:16

How I was kicked off the grid

Dan - 09 December '06 - 02:11

[[[http://dancameron.org/general/1565]]]]

Dan - 09 December '06 - 02:12

Actual Media Temple Grid Server Response Times

[[http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key..]]

steve (Email) (URL) - 23 January '07 - 09:33

MEDIA TEMPLE SUCKS
THEIR SERVICE IS UNSTABLE AT BEST
THE CUSTOMER SUPPORT (OR LACK THEREOF) IS ATROCIOUS

YOU ARE BETTER OFF BURNING YOUR WEBSITE FILES ONTO A CD AND THROWING IT INTO A RIVER

DO NOT USE MT’S GRID, YOU WILL BE VERY SORRY SOONER OR LATER

the real secret begin the MT grid (Email) - 19 February '07 - 17:58

The Grid Server sucks!!!!!!!!!

4h 8m Down in Jan
4h 40m Down in Feb
15h 10m Down in Mar
8h 43m Down in just the first 5 days in April

Actual (mt) Media Temple (gs) Grid-Server Response Times

[[http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key..]]

robert (Email) - 05 April '07 - 22:36

media temple grid service has a very slow page loading time around the world. (america is ok) for small pages with not much traffic it is very poor because of the grid latency. i use it now and i can not recomment it hope it gets better or i have to move…

tomtom (Email) - 30 July '07 - 14:54

Sad part is, its now fast approaching then end of 2007 and at least ever week, if not ever few days MT has a “storage latency” issue that affects EVERYTHING! Who in their right mind at MT thought up the idea to run everyones email on the same “grid” as your web sites? Would it have not made sense to separate the email and web server clusters so you don’t take everything related to a site down at the same time? They basically still have created the same stupid issues as hosting on a single server… There are so many hosting providers out there that do load-balanced shared web hosting without all of the downtime.. being that was part of the point… performance and uptime, and MT’s grid has neither and its been over a year! Haha end of hosting as we knew it, great marketing, crap techs…

Steven Birch (Email) - 18 November '07 - 23:41

I was thinking about moving our site to media temple. Marketing speak with jargons like GPU is very confusing. This blog helped me find what is that “Grid” I have better information now.

free press release (Email) (URL) - 19 November '07 - 17:44

It might be time to have a rethink about how good Bluearc are as MT seem to be putting the blame on them for the current nightmare itâ€™s Grid customers are experiencing.
See [[http://weblog.mediatemple.net/weblog/c..]]

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Like previous commenters, Im not sure why BlueArc is the big story here; While they have impressive SpecOps, their throughput isnâ€™t particularly impressive, and Iâ€™m kinda curious how their throughput scales with cluster size. I can think of a few companies in the clustered storage space that seem to have BlueArc beat in the scalability department, and do so without custom hardware/FPGA which is likely to have flaws (see earlier comment) that are bound to be less trivial to fix than a simple software patch.

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