Sick of Sales Reps: Some Clues for the 21st Century
09 May '06 - 19:43 by benrI've had it. Dig this...
Case 1: Bear Data Systems (VAR). I bought a NetApp FAS270 for my Zimbra system a while back. We got it super cheap because it was a demo refurb, but it came straight from NetApp so we took the deal. I really love the unit and am thinking about deploying more but I'm not sure what they "really" cost brand new through a VAR and all. So I put in a couple of requests for quotes on Friday. Bear Data wasn't at home, they apparently all left on (another) 2 day offsite. Why does it seem like sales teams are always taking offsites? Isn't their job to be onsite?
Anyway... I get a call Monday saying their sorry, they'd like to meet, they'll get a quote, etc. I tell him I don't want to meet, just want the quote. He turns around a quote in about 2 hours and calls back. He tells me that he can probly do even better than that but wants time frames and all that. This pisses me off.
So I inform the rep that I've put together a stack of quotes, when I'm ready to purchase, I don't know when, I'm going to pick up that pile of quotes, find the best price, and submit a PO... therefore, if he wants to be on the top of that pile he better give me the best pricing he can. This seems like simply logic to me, but VARs are like car salesmen, maybe they once were, trying to find ways to keep you hooked into the deal so they can upsell you and boost their commision. He laughs a little and says he'll work on a better quote.
So I get a call today, this time from the VP of sales or something. He wants to get together so they can introduce themselves and better understand our needs, etc, etc, etc. So, this is a problem. I've met Bear Data on at least 2 occasions, once at our site and another time when they took us out to lunch. So we need to be introduced again? I thought all those meetings had built a level of trust, a relationship on which to build, to get quick quotes and cut the crap... apparently not. I pointed out that working with Bear Data was like dating a women with a memory problem, where ever date is the first. That got a chuckle at least. I asked if they had a CRM to manage their relationships but got no answer, I don't think they heard. Then I get more "We want to provide you with service, installation, etc"... which I find funny because the FAS270 is so simple you can install it in less than 5 minutes from box to production, so asked why I should pay them to take it out of the box for me. Another chuckle. Sure, its funny, but I'm serious, people are so dumb that they hand guys like this $6,000 to install something that any Jr. SA could manage.... especially if they read my blog. ;)
So, Bear's gonna try and get me that "best possible" quote soon and hopefully through all the chuckles they'll take away some real lessons about handling customers.
Case 2: Oracle. So today, around 3pm, an Oracle Sales Rep calls me and wants to chat. I'm busy, in the middle of fixing something and I don't have time, but this guy is intent on chatting. He wants to know what we're using, mentions that I recently downloaded some stuff from them (I evaluated JDeveloper 10g over the weekend), and is basically just digging around for a sales oppertunity. He just took forever to get it out.
So I mentioned that I was a happy Oracle 9i customer but evaluating JDeveloper as opposed to using tools from Quest or Embarcadero, considering migration to Oracle 10g RAC, and was really only interested in talking to Oracle about the Fusion Middleware stack because of my interest in using their LDAP virutalization capabilities which I was already talking to another Oracle rep (my rep) about. He then wants to know that reps name. Shit, I can't remember this stuff, not to mention the fact that I'm busy. I didn't feel like digging through my mailbox looking for his name.
So I say to him, "You work for Oracle right? Don't use you Oracle tools? Didn't you buy Seibel and PeopleSoft? Don't you have a CRM? Do you even use your own stuff?" He gets really uncomfortable and tells me that they can't use all their own software... and he knows what I'm gonna say next: "So if Oracle won't use Oracle software, why should I?" He switches into desperation mode, and points out that he's just looking for a sales oppertunity. When a sales guy says "I just wanna sell you stuff" point blank, you know he's hurtin' bad. He asks, again for my reps name. Bad move. I told him that he should be the one that knows who my rep is, it should be sitting in a form on his screen in front of him, he's the one that cold called me at 3pm when I was busy, not the other way around. I asked if there was anything else to discuss, he muttered no and I hung up.
The lessons to be learned....
I've got lots more good stories (ask me sometime about the time EMC called me) but I'll just leave it at those two. Here's the take aways for all you stuffed shirt sales d00ds out there:
- You sell technology, so frickin' use it! Get a good CRM, if you can't afford one, download it, it runs on Solaris like a beauty.
- Keep good records! Cold calling is one thing, often its even appreciated, but if you cold call me more than once its really irritating. Its sends the message that you don't care, nor are you tracking your movements, your just dialing numbers like a moron hoping to catch some business.
- Standardize your methodology. No sales person should EVER ask me about their own company! Don't ask me who my rep is damnit! If you don't know then your company is too stupid and disorganized to be worthy of trust. All reps should know who handles what, how to determine what the current status/needs of a customer are, etc.
- Value the customers time! And "value customer time" doesn't traslate to "they're stupid and busy so like sell them a bunch of consulting", it means realize that I'm busy and don't have time to chat on the phone for an hour at 3pm. Ask if you should call back or if I even want to have the discussion. Ask if email is easier. Don't make me take time out of my day if I'm busy and then give me the old "we realize your busy and we'd like to..." bullshit.
- Don't say things that YOU don't believe yourself. I don't care if its on some data sheet or you were told to say it. If you don't believe it yourself I'm gonna sense it in your voice and action... its known as "bullshitting". Just don't. If you aren't sure, just be honest. As a customer I like honest, I like caring, I like being special. Treat me like a girlfriend, not like an ATM. Wine and dine me, don't just shuvle your latest announcement down my throat, I've already read it.
- When the customer knows what they want, don't second guess them. Don't assume that your customers are stupid and need to get consulting evaluations, etc. You can offer it, but have an attitude of trust and encouragement. If the customer needs help later, they'll trust you and come back for that extra couple grand in consulting. No one likes feeling talked down to, especially by the guy selling them the stuff. I give you money, you give me gear... make me feel good about it in the process.
- Act as a unified force. Back to the CRM, just for emphasis. Act as an entity, act unified. I like having a personal relationship with a rep that I trust, but should he leave I don't want to start over from scratch with a new guy. I've done it, its a huge waste of time. Fill out that damned CRM, so that everyone knows what everyone else is doing and where they left off.
- Lastly but most important: Know what your selling! Nothing is more pointless and a waste of time than talking to a rep that doesn't even know the product portfolio that they're selling. If you need an engineer to help you, be proactive and have them on the line ahead of time. Don't rely on "you can see on our website" because if all the info is on the website than I definately don't need you.
This is 2006 right? How is this new? Macy's addressed this in like the 30's I thought. Its damned frustrating. The CRM thing in particular, because the business that I deal with are really based on the idea of simplyfing complexity, providing access to data, business integration, etc.... if they can't do it, who can? And, moreover, why should I trust their ability to sell such a solution to me if they themselves can't use it? If you want to know how to treat customers, talk to Steve Wynn... thats a man that understand business and that business is about people.
Ben, you should blog questions to ask sales rep’s when they call :)
also tips on how to get them off then phone fast…
PS if they took you out to lunch (for free) then why not have another Lunch but this time see how far you can stretch there budget LOL :)
Kashif - 09 May '06 - 20:09
Ben, you nailed our Oracle relations. In the last few weeks, one of my coworkers got a similar cold call. The saleslady asked who our rep was. My coworker knew his name off the top of his head, and she exclaimed, “Oh! I know him! He’s my boss, we share an office!” I don’t think any CRM in the world can overcome that…[Gimlet] - 09 May '06 - 21:19
Ben, dude, forget about writing about tech stuff, you should write a management/sales manual! You’ll make a fortune! :)I’m gonna forward this nugget to my MBA friends!
-M
Moazam (Email) (URL) - 09 May '06 - 22:42
Ben – you really should check out the 3020c’s they are way faster + you can run SATA in them. I consider the 270c to be quite poor value for money, its performance is approx 40% of a 3020c.Alex - 10 May '06 - 03:33
Ben, while I think you’re right in some of the stuff you’re talking about, some other points of yours are kind of unfair (IMHO).I was writting a reply hare but, the text became too long and I move it to my own blog (you’re wellcomed to comment here or there, as you prefer)
Jaime Cardoso (Email) (URL) - 10 May '06 - 04:55
The Oracle piece is classic. I signed up for the free Oracle magazine, and their sales person calls me up and starts asking questions. The sales rep sits right next to our DBA’s and director of databases and didn’t bother to ask one of the DBA’s who I was. Cold call, like he was trying to circumvent our internal processes. Just like you said, just trying to make a sale.Bob (Email) - 10 May '06 - 08:26
As an account manager, I really appreciated your thoughts. Any new sales rep should:1. Not use a radio voice on the phone
2. Read everything they have (or can find) on the client
3. Not be afraid to say “I have a journalism degree, you don’t want me to answer that question. Let me get you a real answer from someone smarter than me”
I am very thankful to work for a company that doesn’t pay commissions. There is no pressure to be a sleazy, plaid-pant wearin’, styrofoam coffee cup drinkin’, yuckity yuck scumbag salesman. Life is too short for that.
Jango Barks (Email) - 10 May '06 - 10:27
Devil’s Advocate question for you Ben: Why should a salesman bother trying to build a relationship with you, when in the end all you are going to do is shop around the configuration for the cheapest price? (By the way, the e-cheapo vars you gravitate towards are the ones with no CRM tools for their people, and offer no ongoing value to you after the sale.)st0ragebear - 11 May '06 - 09:13
st0ragebear: Volume and future upsell oppertunity.The channel is a tough place to be these days. More and more vendors are providing their own services and consulting which cut out the VAR’s, because lets be honest, if I can have Joe’s VAR Consultants or EMC Badged Employees, which are you going to go for? This really just leaves integration services for the VARs; making all this stuff work together.
But, I’ll be honest, I’m a storage engineer at heart, so the idea of having someone come on my site and put together a storage system that I’ll manage the rest of my days makes me nervous. To me it seems like a waste of money and is likely to stick me with problems or confusion in the years ahead.
For customers that want to “just make it work!” such as small to med sized non-technical businesses, these consulting capabilities, particularly for ongoing maintance are critical, but thats a diffrent market. So which type of business are you going after? I’d think the answer is both.
But thats above and beyond just the fundamental of this entry. The point being that in this modern era there isn’t really any good reason that I can see that busineses should have for being unable to manage relationships across the organization in a seemless manner. Perhaps its fallout from the 90’s when sales managers and businesses had personal relationships that involved business cards, hand shakes, and rounds of golf. Even today, when sales managers leave one business and go to another they typically bring (most) of their customers with them. Having that kind of personal relationship is good (I have a prefered VAR like that) but isn’t nearly as effecient and can allow a business to have problems of scale as they increase the client-to-sales ratio.
Particularlly though, in the case of the two businesses I mentioned above its sort of a “eat your own dog food” scenario. If I was dealing with PC whitebox sales from “Johns Computer Warehouse” I wouldn’t have the same expectations. Both these businesses are big players in the big leagues. If they can’t do it, who can?
benr - 11 May '06 - 15:28
For anyone who’s interested, my friend Dennis Clarke disagrees with me. He damned near rips me a new one! Check it out on his blog:[[http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/..]]
Its a good responce. I can understand where he comes from. But more than anything else, I apprecate someone having as much passion to speak his mind as I do. :)
benr - 11 May '06 - 15:30
You said that the Oracle salesman “mentions that I recently downloaded some stuff from them”. Sounds like they do have a CRM solution then; they just don’t seem to have any respect.arb_npx - 11 May '06 - 19:32
well said. exactly the same situations i’ve had with Sun and Ingram Micro. some can’t even understand simple english!justin - 11 May '06 - 23:28
I couldn’t help it. I’ve blogged my experience as well. Cheers!justin (URL) - 12 May '06 - 00:01
Here’s an offer. You guys tell me what mfrs you want ballpark pricing for and i will pull it from public sources and load it on my site. You can then get all the estimates you want. Just put “benr” in the Project/Notes field so the system will auto-approve you. Deal? I think Ben will vouch for my validity, ben?The only hitch at this point is that it will be Fed Govt pricing (generally 10-20% off list) but its better than nothing.
dale (Email) (URL) - 15 May '06 - 10:30
Basically nothing seems worth thinking about. I haven’t been up to much these days. I just don’t have much to say right now. I can’t be bothered with anything , but whatever.RuleZ023 (Email) (URL) - 12 June '06 - 21:21
I’ve just been staying at home waiting for something to happen. Whatever. Not much on my mind lately. I guess it doesn’t bother me.RuleZ023 (Email) (URL) - 12 June '06 - 23:37
I can’t be bothered with anything these days, but shrug. I just don’t have anything to say recently. I haven’t gotten much done recently. Nothing seems worth thinking about.