OGB Threatens to Shoot Itself In The Head

12 Jul '10 - 19:31 by benr

This morning, at the 8AM (Pacific) OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) meeting, the following was proposed and unanimously resolved:

The OGB is keen to promote the uptake and open development of OpenSolaris and to work on behalf of the community with Oracle, as such the OGB needs Oracle to appoint a liaison by August 16, 2010, who has the the authority to talk about the future of OpenSolaris and its interaction with the OpenSolaris community otherwise the OGB will take action at the August 23 meeting to trigger the clause in the OGB charter that will return control of the community to Oracle.

That is to say, "start talking to us or we'll just shot ourselves in the head."

I made my opinion very clear via the IRC back-channel during the call. At least my call for a liaison was added into the resolution, but I am extremely opposed to this cowardly act.

What exactly do we have to gain or Oracle to loose? All Oracle does is runs out the clock, the entire OGB resigns, and then the one little bit of control the community has is gone. What motive, other than a benevolent act to garner press attention, does Oracle have to comply? We've just made their job easier.

I once advocated this kind of self-implosion tactic back in the Sun days. The reason was to re-organize the OpenSolaris leadership to be more engaged and industry focused. That was a good idea back in the days when I had faith that Sun would "do the right thing". However, those times have past. Oracle has made it clear that it either controls things or it doesn't... there is no give and take. I don't think we can demolish the structure and believe that Oracle will re-organize in such a way as to give the community more power. It was a long shot with Sun anyway.

Frankly, imho, this is just the OGB throwing its hands in the air. The body has been useless for a long time, but only because it has chosen to be. The majority of the OGB's life its wasted by trying to restrict its own authority by endlessly debating and re-writting the constitution. Its never lead anything, and it isn't now.

But the fact that its a wet rag doesn't mean we should simply throw in the towel. A weak seat of power is better than no seat at the table.

So where do we go from here? Who knows. At this point the die is cast and OGB is putting up their last stand. Maybe Oracle gets serious and does something, but I really doubt it. Not because they can't, but because its not in their best interest. Why kill something intent on killing itself.

My only concern as this point is to not loose regular code updates and access to the bug database. Yes, the existing code is "out there", but Oracle is still the biggest contributor, 99.999 to 1. Anyone can fork at any time right now, as is, so if your going to do that why would you risk cutting off the huge contributions continuously made by Oracle?

We're in no worse a position right now than we were during the Sun days. They didn't communicate, we had no visibility or impact on the OpenSolaris distribution, etc. Don't fall into the lie that things are now "worse" than they were... they aren't. Its status quo. The difference is that the OGB is no longer composed of Sun insiders who can get a sense of control from hallway conversations and are now as blind and weak as those of us in the community always have been.

The request for a liaison is a good one... I support it. But damnit, put the gun down. We don't need to act like irrational children having a tantrum. Ultimatums rarely workout the way you hope.

The bar is lower than the original resolution was, so we'll hope for the best and see.

UPDATE: OGB Member Peter Tribble has written a blog entry about this action, recommended reading. While I disagree with the action, Peter is a great guy whom I greatly respect.


- - C O M M E N T S - -

“Don’t fall into the lie that things are now “worse” than they were… they aren’t. Its status quo.”

Damn bro, please do share some of what you’ve been smoking ;-P

kgunders - 12 July '10 - 22:19

Little bit of control ? The OGB has no control over anything if Oracle is not willing to cooperate. And Oracle clearly is not.

I’m in favor of dissolving the OGB, not because it’ll “send a message” to Oracle but because they are wasting their time pretending to have any power at all.

While reading your posts I’m constantly asking myself if you are really interested in seeing OpenSolaris flourish as a healthy open source project or if you’re only too afraid to loose access to a free OS (“where’s the release? where are the updates?” instead of “why can’t i help get things done?”).

You call the current OGB cowards. I’m waiting to see you in the next election then. Let’s see how you expect to get Oracle to listen to you since nobody else can.

So yes, please share what you’ve been smoking.

Giovanni (Email) (URL) - 13 July '10 - 00:14

My view of the Opensolaris situation.

There are two ways of looking at this situation, one from our eyes and two from Oracles eyes. So far every approach for comments or actions have been looking from our eyes, the community. Ok now, lets twist it and look through Oracles eyes.

What is the best way to gain control of the source back. No forks and stagnation. If I’m not mistaken, any source changes has to be posted so as it is available to anyone for reuse, including Oracle. So as Oracle is making changes to the source they are still posting it. How can they gain control of the source? If they have no community! If they have no community, nobody will contest the source closing.

So, the way I see it, as long as there is somebody still contributing source back, they’ll have a heck of a time to gain the source back.

So yes, I am starting to think Oracle is planning on closing Opensolaris by stagnation. We mustn’t let them win. We still need to stay together as Ben Rockwood has been saying and plan a counter attack. Not just throwing up arms in disgust.

If I were a programmer, I’d try to compile Opensolaris and create the missing binaries.

If I’m wrong or out of my mind (well don’t answer that) let me know a better start, and above all, a well planned attack.

Paul Gress (Email) - 13 July '10 - 03:46

Ben, while I share your frustration at the lack of progress and transparency I have to agree with the OGB, but for reasons other than what you state. Right now Oracle’s abominable behavior is being legitimized by the community. They are continuing to make Sun’s claims of Solaris being “open source” (quotes inserted to provide a marker for appropriate finger gestures) while letting the products and processes close by simple entropy. To put a stark analogy on it Oracle is a bad boyfriend, and the OGB is a victim of domestic abuse—attractive, but only because puffy, cried-out eyes don’t show in the dim light of the social scene. Oracle can continue to look good among its buddies and parade the OGB around when it wants a bit of street cred. But back at home the relationship is one of utter neglect. We see that but the greater IT world doesn’t, which suits Oracle. The OGB needs to get out and end the abuse, and the only way to make the breakup stick is to disband. Otherwise, as you say, Oracle continues to get what it wants and “we” get nothing.

The truth is that OpenSolaris was never very Open- to begin with. The OGB has had their noses rubbed in this through inaction and they’re getting to the point where they won’t allow their collective good names to be used anymore. Billions of dollars in technology spending is at stake and Oracle is taking advantage of the community to increase its share of the pie without giving back. You’d not want your name being used to justify marketing chicanery and neither would I. So the community has to die and the members need other outlets for their efforts.

This “one little bit of control the community has” that you speak of is an illusion and always has been. It was never real because Sun didn’t think of its community the way (for example) Linux does. Sun always had a cynical attitude in its heart: “isn’t it so cool that we can get smart people to do work for us, for FREE?” Inside the halls at Corporate for every 10 engineers wearing beards and sandals, in spirit if not in practice, there was a manager in a suit. So when it came time to count the ballot box the engineers got essentially one vote. In total. And the managers won. Engineers don’t write budgets and they don’t set policy. As long as the quarterly numbers kept coming out right and things weren’t too hard to manage the community could have a few seats at the table, a few thousand dollars of resources here and there, with which to have a nice time hacking with their external friends. But with Sun it never meant any measure of control because that table was always implicitly the Kids’ Table, not the Adults’. The only real influence was, as you are aware, via “hallway conversations”. Oracle has not changed this.

The present situation sucks for people like you and I who have built careers around Solaris and related technologies, but there’s not much we can do to reverse Oracle’s course. They got rich in the proprietary software world and they won’t be swayed by arguments to the contrary.

There’s a reason people gave up possible severances and left Sun when opportunities presented to do something new elsewhere…...

Kelly - 13 July '10 - 05:08

Where did you see this Ben, nothing on their twitter [[http://twitter.com/ogb]] or web page [[http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Co..]]
Still for a group which cannot get the minutes of meetings to appear in chronological order I guess because they cannot agree on a date format or spell minutes correctly it is a bit of a lost cause.

Paul Johnston - 13 July '10 - 12:32

This looks like the middle of the end; and to be honest, I cannot blame Oracle if they want to see the OGB commit seppuku. Once you threaten to go out in a blaze of glory (or else!), every discussion will be tinged by that threat. So the best state of play is to see who flinches first..I know who my money is on.

Yiannis (Email) - 13 July '10 - 12:46

I was immediately reminded of the scene in “Blazing Saddles” where Bart takes himself hostage at gunpoint. “He’s just crazy enough to do it!”

David (Email) - 13 July '10 - 16:36

@kgunders: The only difference between the Sun Era and the Oracle Era is trust and hope. Sun said the right thing and we trusted them. But they didn’t listen to the community on the trademark issues, they didn’t make the community the steward of the distribution, etc, etc.

Sun was a company that made decisions bottom up. Because the community had access to the engineers we had great insight into the company. Talking to Dr. Hahn was more useful than talking to Jonathan Schwartz. But Oracle isn’t that way…. its top down. Which means the people we have access to are no longer the authority…. they don’t know much more than we do and they dare not talk like they used to.

The situation feels different, but in all measurable ways its not. At least, its not different today. Tomorrow? Who knows.

benr - 13 July '10 - 19:43

It looks like Kelly’s comment makes more sense than your blog post, seeing as just a few posts before you were talking about how Oracle has total control over OpenSolaris anyway, so Oracle doesn’t need to worry about wresting control back.

ritchan (Email) (URL) - 13 July '10 - 20:25

A coward is someone who criticises people for measuredly doing what they themselves suggested while offering no realistic alternative and doing so out of fear for his own position.

That, Mr Rockwood, appears to be you.

The Contrarian (Email) - 13 July '10 - 22:12

Sounds like it’s time to fork Oracle to me.

OpenSuperNova anyone?

Andy G - 14 July '10 - 00:41

@Contrarian: I made my opinion very clear DURING the meeting, PRIOR to voting. Call upon the clauses of both the charter and the constitution which require a liaison with Sun (now Oracle) and “put down the knife”, that is, don’t force a dissolution of the board.

The result of that was a changing of a resolution to call for a liaison (so I got half of my request) but the knife was left in tact.

I made it oh so abundantly clear, prior to and DURING the voting of the board.

As for position… I’m glad you hold me in esteem, but I have no position. I simply wish to avoid making a bad situation worse.

benr - 14 July '10 - 07:57

It looks like OpenSolaris is dead. No matter what the OGB does, no matter what the users do, no matter what the community does, Oracle has the control.

The code is open source, but that doesn’t make much of a difference if the primary contributors are Oracle staff (and a 999,999 to 1 Oracle to Community submit ratio). If Oracle abandons OpenSolaris explicitly (unlikely) or implicitly (their current path of death by atrophy), there’s no one to maintain the core components of OpenSolaris. It will be an open source operating system frozen in time, which is as good as dead.

TonyB - 14 July '10 - 20:23

Among other good things, software freedom decouples the technical platform from the contributor’s business cycle.

We never had that level of freedom with OpenSolaris: the level that lets us not worry about formatting an array with XFS because SGI might change their minds about something. If Oracle makes the best possible announcement one hour from now, we still will not have the stability of the Linux free software ecosystem.

GOOG for example is probably tied to the Linux platform with huge chunks of secret internal software that are very bizarre and not so portable. Because the Linbux platform is so stable, they can invest heavily in dependent things built above it. Without a secure platform, you must be slightly more agile and less invested than everyone you depend on.

It’s good to think in terms of stability and investment the next time people talk about how an OpenSolaris “ecosystem” never developed. I think it’s not surprising, though it’s ironic since old-school formalities like “committed, stable API’s” were once a selling point of Solaris over Linux. Sun neckties were never stable, since long before the Oracle purchase and for real projects these days this turns out to be more important.

Bogan Oopoaey (Email) - 14 July '10 - 23:37

@benr – so I’m curious as to why my follow up to your @kgunders reply has gone missing?

kgunders - 15 July '10 - 01:42

bro-ben,

I read a post from an insider on /. that Oracle doesn’t care so much about a multipurpose OS and good ex-Sun people are defecting. It’s dead bro. They’re making a mistake if they just want to bury the OS under the DB layer. They will find out soon enough that a database alone is not enough. The OS needs to be multipurpose so that people can run applications, which access the database.

bro-chan - 15 July '10 - 04:05

@kgunders: I don’t edit comments (I’m way too lazy to do that, besides just thinking its wrong)... if your comment isn’t here it didn’t post correctly. Please either re-submit it or email it to me for addition.

Your tone suggests its nasty or something, so I’m really curious now. ;)

benr - 15 July '10 - 06:01

Judging by the uptake of OpenSolaris in the marketplace thus far, and the omens of a guillotine falling.. Begin tailspin directly to oblivion.

Oracle will un-happen OpenSolaris even if it cost a bundle in court to fully claw back the rights, and rewrite the shareholder’s memory OpenSolaris was an inconsequential aberration of Sun trying to look trendy cool that went kind of wrong.

One does not develop a community version alongside one’s main OS product. Makes shareholders unhappy. No way on Earth do shareholders want a FoSS-alike OS in the hopes the Linux lighting could strike twice. No Sir.

They want a proprietary OS – Solaris – And they want it to make money from blue chippers in the cloud.

From here on out it is Solaris or nothing. That is business.

bananahead (Email) - 15 July '10 - 13:18

@benr- I rather suspected as much. I’m pretty direct, if I thought “evil intent” was involved, I’d not have tip toed around it.

By way of interest, it posted w/o my ‘kgunders’, despite my having provided it. By which I mean it was there for me to see after posting. Then when I checked back later, it was not. Figured you had better things to do, but then also guru sysadmin like you wouldn’t have glitches in their blog app, so just thought I’d better inquire. Must be gremlins….

Alas, I don’t consider my commentary of sufficient literary value to save for prosperity, so it will just have to be lost.

kgunders - 15 July '10 - 21:58

I’m not sure if you’ve seen Garrett D’Amore’s blog post:

[[http://gdamore.blogspot.com/2010/07/pl..]]

“With all the ruckus surrounding Oracle’s apparent abandonment of the community, and OGB’s stated intention to suicide, the community uproar has been crazy.

Without giving any details, let me say that a few of us are quietly but diligently working on solutions to the critical problems, and I expect we’ll be able to talk much more freely about the solutions we will be offering in early August, which is coming up very soon now.

So, I’m going to humbly ask folks to be patient—hold your comments, complaints, and flames about Oracle and OpenSolaris and OGB in check please. If you can wait just a little bit longer, then I believe we’ll be able to offer a more constructive outlet for your frustration and energies.”

The (somewhat out of date) CV on his website suggests he is (or was, under Sun) the Solaris x86 engineering lead.

This seems to suggest something big is coming, I’d guess Solaris 11/Next.

What will become of OpenSolaris itself is still very much in question, but at least he’s suggesting news is coming.

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The present situation sucks for people like you and I who have built careers around Solaris and related technologies, but there’s not much we can do to reverse Oracle’s course. They got rich in the proprietary software world and they won’t be swayed by arguments to the contrary.

uggs sale (Email) (URL) - 17 July '10 - 07:45

Hi, Ben:

I agree with your opinion that the current OGB’s response is a retarded time bomb for suicide. It is the response of a coward.

IMHO, there are enough factors that can warrant the survival of OpenSolaris and now the proper response is a Fork should Oracle ignore the August 16th deadline.

From Oracle’s perspective, OpenSolaris hardly generates enough revenue and it is obviously a threat to its “now commercial again” Solaris 10. We all know that Larry wants to squeeze every drop out of his customers for every product that he puts out. So I suspect that the long silence is due to the fact that Larry wants to rename OpenSolaris 2010.whatever to Solaris 11/Next and start charging for it like they did Solaris 10. Hence closing the community was always the intent.

Now I do see you worried about code contribution after the Fork since currently Oracle contributes 99% of the code. Here, I offer a fresh perspective. I do believe that we already have a Fork. And that fork was always Nexenta. Nexenta was always what Open Source advocates’ vision of what OpenSolaris should have been. Having said that, if OGB started endorcing Nexenta by having Evan Powell on its board, I believe that Nexenta does have the engineering resource and spirit to lead the current OpenSolaris code base into the future. Nexenta has commercial income from NexentaStor distribution. Nexenta also has Bill Moore, and a whole bunch of other core Solaris kernel engineers. Given enough time and publicity, Nexenta could lure more core Solaris developers away from Oracle and then given time, the percentage of code contribution will not be in Oracle’s favor.

TS (Email) - 18 July '10 - 03:35

@TS and be stuck with a Ubuntu-esque userland? Not on my watch…..

kgunders - 19 July '10 - 07:13

I have tried OpenSolaris before but it crashed during installation every time. It possible I did something wrong but compared to Ubuntu the process is difficult.And why make a new distribution form start when you already got around 100 other Linux alternative? OpenSolaris was some years late out to.
It would be better if SUN had contribute to Canonical and develop that way instead. So I can not rely see how OpenSolaris will survive.

Henrik (Email) - 19 July '10 - 08:58

Oracle magazine has an interview with Edward Screven. I was disappointed to see no questions about OpenSolaris

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